Difference between revisions of "Talk:Assessment of the health impacts of H1N1 vaccination/Group A"

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(→‎Pandemrix should not be used because of narcolepsy risk)
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[[Category:DARM exercise]]
 
[[Category:DARM exercise]]
 
== Pandemrix should not be used because of narcolepsy risk ==
 
== Pandemrix should not be used because of narcolepsy risk ==
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Jacob, Enembe
  
 
{{discussion
 
{{discussion
 
|Statements= Pandemrix should not be used any more anywhere because its narcolepsy risk is too high. NOTE! The time of the statement is September 2010.
 
|Statements= Pandemrix should not be used any more anywhere because its narcolepsy risk is too high. NOTE! The time of the statement is September 2010.
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|Resolution=  
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|Resolution= Not accepted because benefits are clear and risks small and uncertain.
 
|Argumentation =
 
|Argumentation =
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{{attack|1 |Despite risks, Pandemrix is an effective vaccine and has clearly net positive effects in countries where emergency treatment is poorly available for severe swine flu cases.|--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 23:05, 31 March 2011 (EEST)}}
 
  
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{{attack|1 |According to EMA, data received so far is still insufficient to establish a causal relationship between Pandemrix and narcolepsy. One possible explanation for the results is that Pandemrix could interact with unknown local environmental and/or genetic factor in contributing to the increased risk of narcolepsy among the vaccinated population aged 4 to 19 years in Finland|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}  
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{{attack|J1 |Despite risks, Pandemrix is an effective vaccine and has clearly net positive effects in countries where emergency treatment is poorly available for severe swine flu cases.|--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 23:05, 31 March 2011 (EEST)}}
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{{attack|A1 |According to EMA, data received so far is still insufficient to establish a causal relationship between Pandemrix and narcolepsy. One possible explanation for the results is that Pandemrix could interact with unknown local environmental and/or genetic factor in contributing to the increased risk of narcolepsy among the vaccinated population aged 4 to 19 years in Finland|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}
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{{attack|A2 |The overall annual incidence of narcolepsy remained consistent with prevaccination scenarios.|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:22, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}
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{{defend|A3a |Even though a nine fold increase in narcolepsy was found in vaccinated population, the occurrence of narcolepsy was still very rare with this apparent increase.|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}
  
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{{attack|2 |The overall annual incidence of narcolepsy remained consistent with prevaccination scenarios|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:22, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}
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:{{comment|# |This sounds like an attack, not defence, of the main statement. The same applies to A3b.|--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 07:05, 2 April 2011 (EEST)}}
  
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{{defend|1 |Even though a nine fold increase in narcolepsy was found in vaccinated population, the occurrence of narcolepsy was still very rare with this apparent increase. A number of different reasons may account for the observed rise in the incidence of narcolepsy namely: (H1N1) infection, vaccination, combined effect of infection and vaccination, or some other factor entirely. Infections have been documented as causing narcolepsy.|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}
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{{defend|A3b | A number of different reasons may account for the observed rise in the incidence of narcolepsy namely: (H1N1) infection, vaccination, combined effect of infection and vaccination, or some other factor entirely. Infections have been documented as causing narcolepsy.|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}
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:{{attack|1 |No similar increase in incidence of narcolepsy is reported in other Nordic countries. Canada has extensively used this type of vaccine with no evidence of increased risk for narcolepsy|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}
 
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{{defend|2 |as there is presently no swine flu epidemic in Finland, there  is no immediate need for swine flu vaccination|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}
 
  
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{{defend|2 |The reputation of Pandemrix is globally so poor that it is impossible to use it any more.|--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 23:05, 31 March 2011 (EEST)}}
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: {{comment|# |I divided your argument into two because the parts seem to be separate things.|--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 07:05, 2 April 2011 (EEST)}}
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:{{defend|3 |In Finland, THL decided to stop the use of Pandemrix.|--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 23:05, 31 March 2011 (EEST), [http://www.thl.fi/fi_FI/web/fi/uutinen?id{{eq}}22930]}}
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:{{attack|A4 |No similar increase in incidence of narcolepsy is reported in other Nordic countries. Canada has extensively used this type of vaccine with no evidence of increased risk for narcolepsy|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}
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::{{comment|# |Is this a defence of argument A3b rather an attack?|--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 07:05, 2 April 2011 (EEST)}}
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{{defend|A5 |As there is presently no swine flu epidemic in Finland, there  is no immediate need for swine flu vaccination|--[[User:Jacob Attipoe|Jacob Attipoe]] 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)}}
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{{defend|J2 |The reputation of Pandemrix is globally so poor that it is impossible to use it any more.|--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 23:05, 31 March 2011 (EEST)}}
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:{{defend|J3 |In Finland, THL decided to stop the use of Pandemrix.|--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 23:05, 31 March 2011 (EEST), [http://www.thl.fi/fi_FI/web/fi/uutinen?id{{eq}}22930]}}
 
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{{comment|# |Add links to pages from where you found your arguments.|--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 07:05, 2 April 2011 (EEST)}}
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{{comment|# |You could rethink the relations between arguments A1, A2, A3b, and A4. Can you e.g. develop a new, clear, and strong argument that is defended by all of them? |--[[User:Jouni|Jouni]] 07:05, 2 April 2011 (EEST)}}
  
 
*[http://www.thl.fi/en_US/web/en/pressrelease?id=22930 Discontinuation of vaccination campaign in Finland]
 
*[http://www.thl.fi/en_US/web/en/pressrelease?id=22930 Discontinuation of vaccination campaign in Finland]
 
*[http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/news_and_events/news/2011/02/news_detail_001211.jsp&murl=menus/news_and_events/news_and_events.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058004d5c1 EMA report on narcolepsy and possible association with Pandemrix vaccination]
 
*[http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/news_and_events/news/2011/02/news_detail_001211.jsp&murl=menus/news_and_events/news_and_events.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058004d5c1 EMA report on narcolepsy and possible association with Pandemrix vaccination]

Latest revision as of 06:13, 2 April 2011

Pandemrix should not be used because of narcolepsy risk

Jacob, Enembe

How to read discussions

Statements: Pandemrix should not be used any more anywhere because its narcolepsy risk is too high. NOTE! The time of the statement is September 2010.

Resolution: Not accepted because benefits are clear and risks small and uncertain.

(A stable resolution, when found, should be updated to the main page.)

Argumentation:

⇤J1 : Despite risks, Pandemrix is an effective vaccine and has clearly net positive effects in countries where emergency treatment is poorly available for severe swine flu cases. --Jouni 23:05, 31 March 2011 (EEST)

⇤A1 : According to EMA, data received so far is still insufficient to establish a causal relationship between Pandemrix and narcolepsy. One possible explanation for the results is that Pandemrix could interact with unknown local environmental and/or genetic factor in contributing to the increased risk of narcolepsy among the vaccinated population aged 4 to 19 years in Finland --Jacob Attipoe 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)

⇤A2 : The overall annual incidence of narcolepsy remained consistent with prevaccination scenarios. --Jacob Attipoe 11:22, 1 April 2011 (EEST)

←A3a : Even though a nine fold increase in narcolepsy was found in vaccinated population, the occurrence of narcolepsy was still very rare with this apparent increase. --Jacob Attipoe 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)

--# : This sounds like an attack, not defence, of the main statement. The same applies to A3b. --Jouni 07:05, 2 April 2011 (EEST)

←A3b : A number of different reasons may account for the observed rise in the incidence of narcolepsy namely: (H1N1) infection, vaccination, combined effect of infection and vaccination, or some other factor entirely. Infections have been documented as causing narcolepsy. --Jacob Attipoe 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)

--# : I divided your argument into two because the parts seem to be separate things. --Jouni 07:05, 2 April 2011 (EEST)
⇤A4 : No similar increase in incidence of narcolepsy is reported in other Nordic countries. Canada has extensively used this type of vaccine with no evidence of increased risk for narcolepsy --Jacob Attipoe 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)
--# : Is this a defence of argument A3b rather an attack? --Jouni 07:05, 2 April 2011 (EEST)

←A5 : As there is presently no swine flu epidemic in Finland, there is no immediate need for swine flu vaccination --Jacob Attipoe 11:18, 1 April 2011 (EEST)

←J2 : The reputation of Pandemrix is globally so poor that it is impossible to use it any more. --Jouni 23:05, 31 March 2011 (EEST)

←J3 : In Finland, THL decided to stop the use of Pandemrix. --Jouni 23:05, 31 March 2011 (EEST), [1]


--# : Add links to pages from where you found your arguments. --Jouni 07:05, 2 April 2011 (EEST)

--# : You could rethink the relations between arguments A1, A2, A3b, and A4. Can you e.g. develop a new, clear, and strong argument that is defended by all of them? --Jouni 07:05, 2 April 2011 (EEST)

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